Why John MacArthur does not believe that John Piper could lose his salvation and Why I do

My men’s group is currently working through Hebrews which is really  cool because it’s a great Biblical book for getting back on track in the journey of faith, following in the footsteps of our Hero and Champion, our Forerunner Jesus. But once again I have found myself drawn into the never ending debate about the meaning of Hebrews 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened... who have shared in the Holy Spirit... and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance....”

Does Hebrews 6:4–6 teach that true believers can lose their salvation?

John MacArthur and John Piper both say “No.” The way I see it Hebrews 6 says “Yes,” but we should do everything we can to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone. Hebrews is all about encouraging those who are drifting away to reset their focus on Jesus. It warns us to pay more care attention to faithfulness and inspires us to believe that we can follow in the footsteps of Jesus our Hero, Champion of Salvation and Forerunner in Faithfulness.

Want to weigh in? Check out MacArthur's “No” answer then read my “Yes” answer below and then post a comment and say what you think. This one is resolvable.

Check out John MacArthur's answer (click here) (And don't worry about it being too long; it’s a short answer, especially for MacArthur.)

Does Hebrews 6:4–6 teach that true believers can lose their salvation?

Yes. In that passage, the writer of Hebrews is speaking to those who have “been enlightened,” “tasted the heavenly gift” and “shared in the Holy Spirit.” MacArthur sees tentativeness in these descriptions and says they “hesitated to embrace Christ,” but he is clearly mistaken because this same author uses these verbs elsewhere in Hebrews with no tentativeness: (1) Encouraging Christians to persevere, in 10:32 he says, “Remember those earlier days after you had received the light” or embraced Christ, (2) When Hebrews 2:9 says Jesus tasted death for everyone this obviously means he experienced it, and (3) In Hebrews 3, the author's “holy brothers and sisters” are said to “share in the heavenly calling” as well as to “share in Christ” (3:1,14). If we take his descriptions seriously, it is clear that the writer is addressing Christians who in spite of these real Christian experiences have also “fallen away”; after all this they have rejected Christ, a fatal sin.

Because John MacArthur believes the warning is addressed to the unsaved “who have hesitated to embrace Christ,” he holds that the passage teaches that the opportunity for receiving salvation can be lost, not salvation itself. If MacArthur's interpretation were true, however, the passage would teach that once a person comes close to Christ and refuses to believe, it becomes impossible for that person to come back say six months later and accept Christ as Saviour and Lord. Not only is that bizarre, but it’s also lacking in any other support from the New Testament, and flies in the face of the experience of many true believers in our churches who would claim that kind refusing-then-later-accepting Christ as their story. When Billy Graham encourages people to come forward and accept Christ,  he tells them that they may not have another chance, but he would never subscribe to MacArthur's interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 and say, “You had better come to Christ now, for if you fall away it will be impossible for you to come again to the point of repentance.”

Believers will not fear losing their salvation if they heed the warning and move on to maturity in their faith which is exactly what the writer of Hebrews fully expects them to do (6:1,9). It may be unsettling but the bigger passage here, Hebrews 5:11–6:20, is telling us that any believer who refuses to grow up and continues to drink only milk, refusing solid food and the responsibilities of maturity should be worried. Jesus is our forerunner, how could it be acceptable not to run after him, growing in faithfulness?

If you are a Christian, rejoice! The Champion of your salvation (Heb 2:10) has set you on a journey of faithfulness and Jesus himself is our Forerunner, blazing the trail we are to follow.

Postscript

OK, John MacArthur's answer was shorter than mine. So what’s all this got to do with John Piper? Both MacArthur and Piper are Calvinists, holding that no true believer can lose their salvation, “once saved, always saved.” While it’s good to develop one's beliefs into a theology (like Calvinism), it can be a problem when we don’t allow Scripture to challenge our beliefs and sometimes reshape them. In this case, their belief in eternal security, prevents MacArthur and Piper from accepting the warning of Hebrews 6:4–6 as being applicable to Christians. To hold to their theology of eternal security, they must reinterpret the passage and make this incredible claim that these people who have been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the Holy Spirit are not Christians. We all have our preconceived ideas when we come to the Scriptures, so this is a question of authority. Do I have the authority to make Scripture say what I need it to say to support my beliefs? Or does the Word have authority over me and the power to challenge my beliefs and even reshape them? MacArthur and Piper’s teaching on eternal security stands in the way of hearing the clear warning of Hebrews 6:4–6, but just as I make this claim, I read the conclusion of Piper's sermon on this passage and he blows me away! John MacArthur may claim that no true believer (including John Piper) could lose their salvation, but John Piper has convinced me all the more that the Hebrews warning could apply to himself and to any other Christian who walks away.

If in the coming years I commit apostasy and fall away from Christ, it will not be because I have not tasted of the word of God and the Spirit of God and the miracles of God. I have drunk of his word. The Spirit has touched me. I have seen his miracles and I have been his instrument for a few.

But if, over the next ten or twenty years, John Piper begins to cool off spiritually and lose interest in spiritual things and become more fascinated with making money and writing Christless books; and I buy the lie that a new wife would be exhilarating and that the children can fend for themselves and that the church of Christ is a drag and that the incarnation is a myth and that there is one life to live so let us eat drink and be merry — if that happens, then know that the truth is this: John Piper was mightily deceived in the first fifty years of his life. His faith was an alien vestige of his father’s joy. His fidelity to his wife was a temporary passion and compliance with social pressure; his fatherhood the outworking of natural instincts. His preaching was driven by the love of words and crowds. His writing was a love affair with fame. And his praying was the deepest delusion of all — an attempt to get God to supply the resources of his vanity.

If this possibility does not make me serious and vigilant in the pursuit of everlasting joy, what will?

Amen! Let us all be warned about the danger of falling away and be diligent “in order to make our hope sure” (Heb 6:11).

Update (The Blog Entry Title everyone uses when they want to admit they've failed to make an entry in far too long.)

So sad... almost two months since my last blog entry. If anyone is still bothering to check my blog like my good friend Aaron, please don't give up, yet! It's not that I don't have more to write, it's just that I haven't found the time to do it. I am working on many blog entries and biblical studies in my mind, and I will find the time to write them down and publish them on my blog, if no where else. I guess I'm playing off a quote I've heard attributed to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, "I have more music in my head than I'll ever be able to write down." For my birthday, back in March, I got Karl Barth's book on Mozart as well as a book titled Confessions of a Pastor by Craig Groeschel. I haven't read either of them yet!
I've made the big change to becoming a stay-at-home dad to better care for our boys and see to it that they get to school and always have a parent at home. Before this change, I worked a lot of hours at my transitional job to prepare for the loss of income. Since the change, well, I'm still learning the new rhythm of spending the days with my boys. Now maybe I'll find the time to read, to write and to blog.
The good news is that now I do have more time to preach, especially Sundays for pulpit supply or interim assignments. And, I'm very interested in speaking at Men's Retreats and other men's or pastors' events. I can speak frankly and biblically about the challenges men face today, sexual temptation, cybersex & pornography addiction and restoration/recovery for those who commit sexual sins. It is this part of my speaking ministry which I would really like to develop. I believe very strongly in God's astounding redemptive power and it's through speaking and preaching that I believe he will work redemptively toward bringing good from my fall from pastoral ministry. By God's mercy and grace, I am a different man today and I want to help any man I can from falling into moral failure as I did.
We are always surprised when prominent men fall deep into sexual sin, but I know it's not just politicians ruining their lives with secret sexual habits. So many men do not know how to escape the mess they find themselves in, even though many of them try so hard to find the way. John Edwards, who made the quality of his marriage a central part of his overall message during the 2008 Democratic primaries surprised us all last Friday when he admitted to having an extramarital affair, something he had denied until then. It's shame which keeps us from being honest about our sexual sins and keeps us from finding the help we need. So because of shame we keep it secret. The damned ironic thing about shame is that secrecy is actually what gives it its power over us. It seems to me that John Edwards may be coming out publicly now on this matter so that the secrecy of his wrongdoing and his denials about it don't ruin the life he's been able to rebuild for himself since coming clean with his wife in 2006 about this affair. I hope he's able to do it, because I believe that by God's grace, there can be life, good life, even after sexual sin.

"Kristen": Another Young Girl Losing Her Soul in Pursuit of Celebrity

One amazing thing about New York Governor Eliot Spitzer’s stunning fall from grace is how the prostitute he hired for $4000 is so quickly becoming a celebrity! "Kristen" was identified by the NY Times as Ashley Alexandra Dupre and interviewed just three or four days after the story broke, the same day the Governor resigned from office.

Why be interviewed? Why acknowledge being on hire with Governor Spitzer? Why not remain the anonymous "Kristen" from the Emperor's VIP Club?

The answer? Why miss this extraordinary chance to become a celebrity! What reason did she give the NY Times for doing the interview? “I just don't want to be thought of as a monster.” And her proud mother chimed in too, “She is a very bright girl who can handle someone like the governor.” Already Penthouse and Hustler are making competing offers to photograph her. Her ten seconds of fame have begun!

Let's have a reality check. "Kristen" was/is a prostitute. She's made some pretty desperate choices to end up where she is now. She aspires to be a singer, but that takes money. She left “a broken family” at age 17, having been abused, and has used drugs, “been broke and homeless.” She says she's “learned what it was like to have everything and lose it, again and again.” These quotes are taken from "Kristen's" interview and her webpage. A little odd how she doesn't mention how she became a high-priced hooker to pay for the life she was trying to live and the career as a singer she was trying to launch.

Sorry, but I just don't buy the Pretty Woman glamorized version of prostitution. It's a desperate life. Last night, Good Friday, 20/20 aired a two-hour special on “Prostitution in America.” Only one girl out of the hundreds of interviews even remotely claimed to be happy with what she was doing. One of the working girls interviewed actually suggested that she was "jealous" of "Kristen" because now she's found a way out. I doubt it. It's only liable to make her life worse, especially if she sells herself to the porn industry. Anyhow, after two years of research and interviewing working girls, Diane Sawyer concludes: “Be it glamorized prostitution with high-end escorts, poverty stricken street hookers or legal working women in the sex trade, these women all share some things in common. Sexual abuse at a young age, broken homes and addictions to drugs and alcohol all lead women to pursue lives that aid them in getting money any way they can.” They desperately try to find some way to make it in the world, but end up losing their souls.

It was very sad to hear all these girls from all walks of life being interviewed. They had been damaged and in desperation were trying to make money to make a better life for themselves. Jesus said, “And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul?” (Matthew 16:26) Almost 100% of those interviewed agreed that the personal toll of becoming a prostitute was too high a cost. Likewise, I say to "Kristen," the cost of celebrity, if it involves losing your own soul, is too high.

And the men who hire these women, are they not also forfeiting their souls for a little pleasure? I don't know, but to me it seems like you would have to be pretty obsessed with the prostitute to pay $4000! "Kristen" represents a fatal attraction for Eliot Spitzer. Do you remember who shot J.R.? Yep, Kristin (Shepherd), his wife's scheming sister and his mistress. Why'd she shoot him? Because she was mad at J.R., being pregnant with his child but tossed aside. She was a near-fatal attraction for J.R. What's gone wrong when men so obsess over a woman to the point of committing acts which jeopardize their lives? Acts which are costing them their souls? Why run the risk of being publicly exposed and ruined? Personally, I suspect it's sexual addiction as marked by the incredible inability to stop. Surely Governor Spitzer would've stopped, if he could have, since he himself was the motivating force behind the investigation of prostitution rings in New York state. Anyhow, I digress—see my earlier post "Stunning Fall From Grace."

To conclude, a fitting thought for Good Friday or Dark Saturday: pleasures and pursuits in this life which cost you your soul cannot be worth it. You not only have to live with the choices you make but you must live with the person you become. Then there's the consequence in the life to come.... Celebrity isn't worth it. I've been too close to becoming a "soul-less" man myself, so it is in sympathy and understanding that I say how sad it is to see "Kristen" on the front page of the NY Times (and Toronto Star!), another young girl losing her soul in pursuit of fame.

Related Sermons

Fatal Attraction
2 Samuel 13 is a very telling account of sexuality gone wrong. King David's son Amnon can not stop obsessing over his own sister, Tamar, not until he crosses the line. What can we learn from this passage of Scripture to help us face a world in which perversion is no longer something not talked about, but rather one of the biggest, fastest growing markets on the Internet? What's gone wrong with sexuality? Why can't some men stop, even when the attraction is fatal?

Stunning Fall From Grace

"A moment comes for every addict when the consequences are so great or the pain is so bad that the addict admits life is out of control because of his or her sexual behavior. Some are news-making moments...." Dr. Patrick Carnes goes on to say: "Millions read the steamy news accounts and, despite their own prurience, make severe judgments about people who... visit prostitutes, who commit homosexual acts in public toilets, or even who have affairs." Dr. Carnes then shares this insight: "A small audience - but larger than most imagine - read each line fearing that the same public exposure could happen to them...." (Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction, page 1)

Having experienced my own fall from grace, I know the moment Dr. Carnes is describing, a moment which I re-live today upon reading the newspaper and NY Governor Eliot Spitzer's statement of remorse and resignation:

In the past few days I've begun to atone for my private failing with my wife, Silda, my children and my entire family. The remorse I feel will always be with me. Words cannot describe how grateful I am for the love and compassion they have shown me.
From those to whom much is given, much is expected.... I am deeply sorry I did not live up to what was expected of me.
To every New Yorker, and to all those who believed in what I tried to stand for, I sincerely apologize. I look at my time as governor with a sense of what might have been....

His words express so much of what I felt and what I wish I could have said when my moment came and my life crashed around me. Years have gone by, but to any who haven't heard me say it, I am sincerely and deeply sorry. The changes I've made in my life now, I wish I could have made them so much sooner.

I sincerely hope that Eliot Spitzer is able to begin the journey of recovery from sexual addiction. What? Is Spitzer a sexual addict? Does it really sound sane to spend over $4000 to fly in a hooker on the eve before Valentine's Day? They're estimating he's spent over $80,000 in the last 8 months for encounters with prostitutes in Dallas, Florida and Washington. I see a life spinning out of control - an addiction being fully acted out as shown by the incredible inability to stop which is the sine qua non of sexual addiction. When a person violates their own personal standards and can no longer direct themselves out of harm's way, it is usually safe to conclude that some sort of addiction is in play.

King David, of Old Testament Israel, was exposed for his sins of adultery with Bathsheba, trying to cover it up and then having her husband killed. In describing the consequences of his sins and what he would do, the LORD said to David, “Although you have acted in secret, I will do this thing before all Israel, and in broad daylight” (2 Samuel 12:12). It is no small thing when political and spiritual leaders fall from grace. And yet we don't seem to be able to protect ourselves from politicians and pastors whose sexual behaviour ultimately destroys their public service. We've focused our attention on trying to prevent such disasters from happening, and yet they continue to happen. Perhaps, we must also begin to better consider how the fallen can be restored. After all, history still described David as "a man after God's own heart." Does Christianity today offer a message of hope, forgiveness and restoration to those who fall from grace into sexual sins?

Related Sermons

David, Jim Baker & Jimmy Swaggart
Looking to 1 Samuel 11 & 12, this message critically examines how Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and I as a pastor each responded to the kind of temptation which led David to seduce Bathsheba, get her pregnant, try to cover it all up, arrange to have her husband killed and then marry her. Why does sexual sin so quickly turn into such a devastating spiral of destruction? Why do pastors today not learn from David's experience? How can Christians today including "desperate housewives" and porn-addicted men find a way of stopping the devastating spiral?

Twisted
2 Samuel 13 is a very telling account of sexuality gone wrong. What can we learn from the Scriptures to help us face a world in which perversion is no longer something not talked about, but rather one of the biggest, fastest growing markets on the Internet? What's gone wrong?